Thurston Place College:
desperate experiment, wrong place?

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Questions to Anne Tolley in the New Zealand Parliament 15 June 2011

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Video1  Video 2

Application for Principle of Thurston Place College

Concept

Problem

New Zealand is not alone in having children and teenagers who are impossible to teach in a normal school. Expelling them from school leads to the problem of what to do with them now?

They live in houses run by the New Zealand Child, Youth and Family Services (CYFS). They no longer live at home, because their parents are inadequate or dangerous and have brought their children up to be the same. They are in the care of the State. Many do not have a good male role model

Ideally they should be taught at their local school, but main-stream schools find them impossible to deal with, because of severe behaviour problems. Drugs and alcohol help fuel the situation, according to people with access to the previous troubled schools.

The Felix Donnelly Colleges have dealt with difficult teenagers around Auckland. They were closed because the six schools, scattered in the Auckland region, were considered below standard and impossible to fix. "Nothing more than sheds" (Anne Tolley).

Proposed Education Department Solution

The most difficult teenagers, aged from about 12 to 17, are to all attend just one school, with a high teacher to student ratio of about 1:4. It is unclear which staff will be teachers and if there will be any security guards.

Thurston Place College is to be the new school for difficult school children, in Bucklands Beach South. It shares an unfenced boundary with a very nice Primary School and the Intermediate School, while the High School is only one block away.

These uncooperative teenagers will be taken to the new school in buses, because virtually all of them do not live anywhere near. They are in CYFS care and some of them come from outside Auckland, even the South Island.

Previously Thurston Place College was the Waimokoia School for special needs primary school pupils. The little children were kept under control, until older, intermediate children were added to the mix. The school then became a major problem and more than one teacher is being charged with improper behaviour. So Waimokoia School has been closed.

A new school is proposed on the same site, because the previous school for little children was inadequate for difficult teenagers. That will cost over six million dollars.

Up to 100 difficult teenagers will be accommodated, but perhaps only half that number at first.

Previous efforts to control disadvantaged children have failed. It is admitted by the Education Department experts that this is an expensive experiment to see if a well-resourced establishment, built for the purpose, will finally work.

The site was chosen because the Education Department believes resource consent is not needed and there is no necessity to confer with the community.

Local residents protest against Thurston Place College

 

NIMBY

Local protests are often dismissed as being "Not In My Back Yard" syndrome.

BUT the suggestion is to have Thurston  away from everybody's backyard.

  1. The Government has a history of closing schools rather than trying to fix them. A closed school in a non-residential neighborhood would be more suitable, rather than using it for bomb practice.
  2. Alternatively, sell the expensive Waimokoia site, with its tiny, sloping playing fields and use the cash to finance a new school, well away from small children, where healthy outdoor activities would thrive. Exercise is what the troubled youths need and enjoy. They require space to learn gardening and workshops to acquire a skill, since many of them will never read or write.
    1. The local protest is now supported by the Howick Community Board, go to the main web site for coverage.

    2. Although this college for students with severe behavioral problems was proposed over the Christmas break, it only became known to the local residents in June. The government trick of hoping changes will not be noticed if they are made during a holiday is very familiar in New Zealand. There was no discussion from the Education Department until a local school principal accidentally discovered in May what was happening next door, while trying to get dangerous trees dealt with. The principle arranged a meeting in June with education officers and the community. The Minister and the local member of parliament did not attend.

    3. Question from Dr Rajen Prasad in Parliament: "Is she satisfied that appropriate consultation has taken place with local residents...?"
      Answer from Minister Anne Tolley: "To be frank, no. ..."

    4. (Harm from grouping high-risk youth)
      (Deviancy training by peer groups)
      Bringing very difficult teenagers by bus into one place is asking for trouble, as the worst will soon educate the others down to their level of unpleasantness. It seems better to keep younger and older separated, in small special units, in schools local to their own residential area.

    5. Currently there is not even a fence between the "College" and the Primary School. However, students from previous institutions were known to scale high fences. Reluctance to build spiked fences, because the place will look like a prison, is understandable, but unsafe for the adjacent little children.

    6. If there is a break-out from the college, by one or many inmates, local schools have been warned they will have to go into "lock down."

    7. Local roads have few foot-paths. Instead there are walk-ways running behind the houses, shielded by trees, and running through tunnels under the road. A caring institute for bad behaviour teenagers should have clear surroundings and sit away from adjacent homes, preferably in the country-side, as has been done in Sweden.

    8. (Victimization walking to school)
      Bad teenagers, running wild in the walk-ways, after escaping from the "College," will be a danger to little children walking to school along these very pretty, but hidden paths. Currently it is safe for small children to walk alone to school, but once the "baddies" arrive, and they abscond from Thurston College, major trouble with bullying is predicted.

    9. Recently, when intermediate school-age kids were installed in Waimokoia, additional to the primary age children who had been there for years, one allegedly exposed himself to little girls. It is likely worse could happen if older, teen-age delinquents are placed on site, only to abscond and run free on the walk-ways.

    10. IMBY

      Half Moon Bay residents are used to deprived children in their suburb and have no problem about that.

      Waimokoia School and the Health Camp have both been in HMB for years.

      The proposed new college with inadequate fences is not for children, it is for grossly disturbed teenagers, making a dangerous difference to the adjacent primary school.

      The youths are not supposed to be around during weekends. Unfortunate experience with previous Auckland schools for behaviour problems means the children, or their older friends, will arrive out of school hours to hide drugs and weapons in the bushes, for access when the "students" attend once more during the week. The concept they will only be in the area during controlled school hours is very risky.

    11. Those delinquents not already brought up in a gang environment, will be exposed to those who have been. Gangs are the main suppliers of drugs in New Zealand. Further drug supplies are not needed in the pleasant suburb that Thurston Place College is being imposed upon.

    12. The worst teenagers are likely to graduate from Thurston into borstal or prison, because only a few in previous studies responded to directed education. The local knowledge they gain around the College, in a suburb which currently has a very low crime rate and which they would not normally visit, may prove invaluable to them for setting up robbery of the adjacent houses.

    13. Traffic in the small Thurston Place will be heavy at the start and end of the school day and locals say there was insufficient parking for the smaller Waimokoia school, which preceded this establishment.

Representative Answers to NIMBY

See the original TV3 news item for them all

FOR Thurston Place College,

morgan
09 JUN 2011 12:55P.M.
wow. it's disgusting people like you that won't give these children a second chance, that add fuel to the fire. You sound like a stuck up, rich housewife. How are these kids ever going to make something of their lives if no one offers them a chance to. As surprising as it may seem to you, these kids are going to attend school to learn, to better themselves, and to put their past behind him. Not torment your 5 year old daughter by bullying her or selling her drugs over the f***ing fence. I hope that perfect little princess of yours doesn't turn out a thing like you.

 

 

Liz
08 JUN 2011 11:53P.M.
They should be so very ASHAMED of themselves. Children are what you make them, they are purely victims of their environment. These parents are continuing New Zealands domestic violence issues assuming such things aren't happening in their own back yards. Blaming the children!!! And assuming these children will even be a danger to others is saddening. How dare they further outcast these young innocent victims!!!! I am disgusted in their lack of caring for our nations most vulnerable.

 

 

Victoria Anderson
09 JUN 2011 3:02P.M.
...your child will come across intimmidation and bullying no matter what school your child is in, or next to...thats a lame excuse woman...be honest and say what you really want to instead of using your child/ren for your excuses for not wanting the CYFS school there...and lockdown procedures?...whats wrong with you people...these are children that need stability and care in their lives...fair enough, some of these children may be violent but its only because of their upbringing...if you show these children a better/different way of life by supporting them, they will certainly change for the better...the last thing they need is more neglect and abandonment...come on parents of Bucklands Beach...TAUTOKO!

slightly shortened

 

Against

Brian Wardel
08 JUN 2011 11:27P.M.
What is this stupid pilfering government thinking,,NO BLOODY WAY!, should this be anywhere near a school, or for that matter in a built up area,, stick the little blighters next to a prison on desert road!!!!!!!!

Jo
13 JUN 2011 1:47P.M.
Dear Cheryl- June 10.

These teenagers are totally entitled to a good education and no one is denying them this. Studies have shown that children with severe behavioural and emotional issues are best placed within mainstream schools...

What is proposed here is grouping up to 100 of these teenagers together in one spot- an educationally proven recipe for disaster. The initial group of 35 or so teenagers are coming from the Felix Donnely school, shut down because of on going educational and structural problems, which included 6 Principals in 6 years. A senior teacher of this school has stated that every morning these youth were checked for drugs, weapons alcohol and cigarettes. Teachers oftened feared for their own safety. Some of these kids are from 3rd generation gang families. Certain colours are banned from clothing, because they are gang colour. Friends of the kids often came to the grounds and left paraphenalia hidden for the resident kids to find and use.

All these kids have been removed from their families and placed into CYFs care - and some of these have been moved from one carer family to another, because the previous carer could not cope with the behavioural problems any longer.They do not have and have not come from caring families like the family your grandson obviously belongs to. Many of the kids have been under the Youth Justice system, or are heading to it...

Can you honestly say that you think it is a good idea to place these youths in a facility that joins onto a primary school with 500+ pupils? They shouldn't be placed all together for a start, and not next to ANY primary school, anywhere in New Zealand. Not in Bucklands Beach, not in Otara, not in Mangere, not in Remuera, not in Manuwera and not in Christchurch either.

If it has to be built, because no main stream school will take any of these students any longer, they need a setting away from any schools, and built up residential area. They need a setting with a good amount of land, not an area that will barely provide one playing field. We do know about these kids. We know they are entitled to the best education that can be provided for them. This college, in this small location, will certainly NOT give them that.

slightly shortened

Knowledgeable youth worker
09 JUN 2011 7:15P.M.
Why was FDC closed? The Commissioner at the time wrote to the Minister asking her to keep the school opened as all the problems that ERO had encountered had basically been solved by the commissioner and the then Acting Principal. The Minister of Education was asked to give the school another ERO report to confirm the documents and information sent to her. The Minister totally ignored these documents and the request of the Commissioner. Why?
Why when plans had been drawn up to build at Otara Road on part of the Old Bairds Road Intermediate School did the MOE change its mind. It would be far better to have students closer to their homes, within good distance of Facilities such as pools, gyms, and other outdoor recreation.
The Ministry is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the people around Waimokoia. These students may not yet be Youth Justice, but many are certainly on their way to it. It will take someone with experience and dedication to get the new school running as well as Felix Donnelly College was running when it was closed.

As a former employee of one of the Trusts students to the (sic) I know for a fact that many of these students can be dangerous. I watched a student chase a former Principal around one of the sites with a hammer threatening to bash her. Many students have had to do SAFE courses due to sexualised behaviours and there were many complaints in the localities the FDC sites were located in about "activities" of students. It was not uncommon to have their "gang" related families hide drugs/ huffing materials and weapons around the sites of the school on weekends. Staff at FDC had to be called by their first names, so students could not tell relatives who they were and find out where they lived. One staff member protested the publishing of a staff list with last names on it in case students got hold of a copy. ERO complained that FDC had too many adults (1:6 ratio) Thurston will have 1:4?????

 

 

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